1 ELEPHANT MEETING, 23. Nov 2023, 19:00 - ca. 20:30
   2 present: F.D., F.G., A.K., E.R.
   3 
   4 PROBLEMS
   5 - we do not meet in real life.
   6 - different languages
   7 - different cultures (e.g. D: processus, rules, say no; F: easy consensus)
   8   "saying no" is good to protect structures
   9   - collaboration in different cultures
  10     - pick up phone and call versus
  11     - sending an e-mail and having an answer days later
  12 
  13 TIME is not a question of a lot free time,
  14 TIME is a question of motivation.
  15 
  16 Today, there is not really collaboration.
  17 The situation is not toxic, there is no dispute, but it is acid, it is dangerous and is slowing everything.
  18 1. There is no one from the starting people still with us (probably a group of friends in Australia)
  19 2. There was a "war" ca. 10 years ago that rined a lot, people left or resigned.
  20 3. There is nearly no renewal neither at the committee nor at the teams nor at the community.
  21 
  22 If we are inefficient, our work becomes useless; the worst situation.
  23 - We need a professional attitude
  24   - how do we interact with each other, our behaviour, our values
  25     - Under no circumstances should we make the work of others appear pointless. 
  26       e.g. code review does not happen = the coder's work is pointless.
  27 
  28 TO DISCUSS
  29 1. Reviews: How to get reviewers? How to get reviews done?
  30 2. Resolve problems: May be once a month a Resolving Round Table (video conference) with all involved (e.g. infra, support, software, reviews, crit.) and do it together as much possible in one hour.
  31 3. In critical situations, someone should decide, give orders. The others then carry it out. Brian, for example, has a lot of experience here.
  32 4. Every week a work session of 3 hours online with an open window for each group, open mics only from my group:
  33    - starting on time
  34    - finishing on time
  35    - split up the group in two, if two different things are to do
  36    reward (monetarian or non-monetarian)
  37 
  38 Even with volunteers, you can say: this is good, this is not good.
  39 That is helpful, that is of little use
  40 
  41 Who is standing on the commando bridge? Who do we see, the people in front of us, when they think of CAcert?
  42  
  43 TASKS TO DO UNTIL 7. Dec. 2023
  44 FD: Presentation
  45 FG: Motion
  46 ER: Minutes
  47 AK: List of most important technical issues
  48 
  49 
  50 Aleš Kastner sagt:known problems. 
  51 Aleš Kastner sagt:Sins is a joke. 
  52 Aleš Kastner sagt:I must admit I am a bit like JanDD, possibly with a lot of understanding for users. 
  53 20:30
  54 Aleš Kastner sagt:I have a little to say to this topic. 
  55 20:32
  56 Aleš Kastner sagt:I am used to work alone, 
  57 Aleš Kastner sagt:but time to time get out of my tower. 
  58 Aleš Kastner sagt:so i think i can adapt 
  59 Aleš Kastner sagt:i was an expert all over my lifetime. 
  60 Aleš Kastner sagt:the international collaboration is not quite new for me, 
  61 Aleš Kastner sagt:but little experience 
  62 Aleš Kastner sagt:all over i agree with FD 
  63 20:43
  64 Aleš Kastner sagt:perhaps the roots of this "useless disease" are in the disrecognising of CAcert and an unsuccessful audit. 
  65 
  66 Aleš Kastner sagt:True. 
  67 Aleš Kastner sagt:for rigid rules, you mean? 
  68 Aleš Kastner sagt:Volonteer can then say? I quit. No leverage against him. 
  69 Aleš Kastner sagt:advocatus diaboůi: and is the work in CAcert teally attractive? with that elephant? 
  70 Aleš Kastner sagt:diaboli 
  71 21:10
  72 Frédéric Dumas
  73 Frédéric Dumas sagt:devil's advocate 😃 
  74 21:18
  75 Ich sage:
  76 http://www.igaelic.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/SALT-on-a-Shoestring.pdf
  77  
  78 21:23
  79 Aleš Kastner sagt:Priorities will be most important. Perhaps 1. to set a previous status what concerns certs by Class 3 
  80 Aleš Kastner sagt:that includes 2-3 problems, unfortunately... 
  81 Aleš Kastner sagt:the list 3rd ver is ready! 
  82 
  83 
  84 20:51
  85 Links to open reviews:
  86 https://blog.cacert.org/2023/05/papillon-vient-voir-les-bugs/
  87 https://blog.cacert.org/2023/05/join-the-cacert-spring-offensive/
  88