[21:00] hello [21:00] hi christophe! sascha here [21:01] hey Sascha [21:01] --> bdmc (bdmc@user-0c8huj1.cable.mindspring.com) hat #board-meeting betreten [21:01] hey Brian [21:01] I apologise. I thought that this was an hour from now. [21:01] you're just in time [21:02] Do we have enough to formally start? [21:02] 20 UTC, but normally (reading the mails) it's 21 UTC [21:02] etienne has not said anything yet [21:03] OK. I see three of us "logged in," but only two speaking, yet. [21:03] 3 people : Me, Brian and Sascha [21:04] But you, Christophe, aren't officially a Board Member, yet, as far as I know. [21:04] Let me re-check Etinne's invitation. [21:05] No, it says 20. [21:05] indeed. I just want to inform you who's online [21:05] egal: Dirk, are you still there? [21:05] Yes, I know. There are also Dirk and Karl-Heinz' servers ( log machines ), and Dirk's other machine. [21:06] Lambert may or may not be here. [21:07] Someone with more privileges can put the link to the Agenda in the "title," but here it is until then. [21:07] https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2020-02-13 [21:07] I tried it already, but only nb has such right [21:08] I doubt that Nick is actually here, just his machine. [21:11] --> Treasurer (Treasurer@2a01:e0a:25a:9160::a) hat #board-meeting betreten [21:12] 3! [21:12] <-- Etienne (2efdbfd9@localhost) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand-crafted IRC client) [21:14] --> Etienne (2efdbfd9@localhost) hat #board-meeting betreten [21:14] Bonsoir Etienne [21:15] Hello, I had some issues with the connection. [21:15] Our agenda: https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2020-02-13 [21:15] bonsoir Etienne [21:15] motion system: https://motion.cacert.org/motions/ [21:17] Greetings and welcome to the party, Etienne. [21:17] Shall we begin the formal part, now, and hope that others join us? [21:17] yes, please [21:17] Yes, bdmc, we are 4... [21:18] ok [21:18] In that case, I hereby call this meeting of the Board of CAcert, Inc. to order. [21:19] I'll make minutes [21:19] As usual, I need to ask whether anybody has deadlines. [21:19] Thank you Sascha. [21:20] Less than two hours, all right with everybody? [21:20] ok [21:20] ok [21:20] agreed [21:21] May I have a motion to accept the minutes from our last meeting, or does anybody want to discuss that? [21:21] I move that the minutes of the board meeting from 2020-01-09 be accepted. [21:21] second and aye [21:22] aye [21:22] All in favour? [21:22] aye [21:22] aye [21:22] Carried [21:22] Thank you Sascha for your last minutes, that helps Etienne [21:22] Are there any conversations in the Board or Board Private mailing lists that need to be discussed here? [21:23] Incidentally, Christophe was asking where he could get information, and I suggested Board Private. Does he have access to that? [21:24] i doubt that [21:24] not yet [21:24] i have no access yet, too [21:26] Etienne: Are you still connected, or are you still having connection issues? [21:26] still here [21:26] Do you know anything about access to Board Private? [21:27] <-> Treasurer heißt jetzt Frederic-Treasurer [21:28] If we agree, I can ask to the list owner to add Christophe [21:28] It take usually only some hours. [21:28] I recommend that both Sacha and Christophe be added. [21:28] I just noticed that I got access finally. [21:28] Sascha is allready. [21:28] Wow. That was fast! B-) [21:28] superb [21:29] Yes, it is part of the welcome package for Christophe. May be Bret, too? [21:29] That is up to you and Christophe, and the other members of the Board. [21:30] We could also discuss a private channel for the Finance committee. [21:30] Understood. We will arrange these details with Christophe and Bret [21:30] that should be great [21:31] It depends on how strongly he is committed: just finances or a slightly broader view of everything. [21:31] Etienne: I agree. [21:31] OK, coming back to the Agenda. [21:31] Item 1.6 -- Action Items [21:31] Anything to report? [21:32] We are still fighting against Paypal [21:33] Etienne and I (and Christophe) are waiting February 20th, which is the date fixed by Finance Regulation Ombudsman [21:34] Yes, more information at 2.3.1. [21:34] so, let's move on [21:35] That is a motion: "I would like to thank Megan R for her services as data protection officer. She took over this position in a difficult time and under great political pressure. She was the first Data Protection Officer and we regret that she has had to give up this post because of the United Kingdom's leaving the European Union. We hereby dismiss [21:35] her with great regret and our sincere thanks for her unselfish assistance." [21:35] I will second that. [21:35] aye [21:35] aye [21:35] Sorry, stop. [21:36] That isn't a formal motion. [21:36] Who is "I"? [21:36] We? [21:37] "The committee" [21:37] "The board"? [21:37] bdmc you're right [21:37] That would sound better. [21:37] Officialy, the board is named "committee" ;-) [21:37] How about "The Board of CAcert, Inc. would like to .. [21:37] OK, use Committee. [21:37] The committee of CAcert Inc. would like to thank Megan R for her services as data protection officer. She took over this position in a difficult time and under great political pressure. She was the first Data Protection Officer and we regret that she has had to give up this post because of the United Kingdom's leaving the European Union. We hereby [21:37] dismiss her with great regret and our sincere thanks for her unselfish assistance. [21:38] bdmc thank you for your falcon eye [21:38] Capitalise Committee. [21:38] The Committee of CAcert Inc. would like to thank Megan R for her services as data protection officer. She took over this position in a difficult time and under great political pressure. She was the first Data Protection Officer and we regret that she has had to give up this post because of the United Kingdom's leaving the European Union. We hereby [21:38] dismiss her with great regret and our sincere thanks for her unselfish assistance. [21:38] Then I will be happy to re-second. [21:38] aye [21:38] aye [21:38] aye [21:38] aye [21:38] Carried [21:38] shall I insert that in the motion system? [21:39] yes, please [21:39] ok [21:39] To replace Megan, I asked Gero and he agreed. That was before the Brexit in view of the then possible Brexit. [21:39] Thank you. That was Agenda Item 2.1.1 -- Not exactly a Nomination. However, Item 2.1.2 is. [21:40] Shall we create that motion and vote? [21:40] The Committee of CAcert Inc appoint Gero Treuner as data protection officer. He is a resident of the European Union and therefore fulfils the legal requirements. [21:41] "appoint" => "appoints" [21:41] The Committee of CAcert Inc appoints Gero Treuner as data protection officer. He is a resident of the European Union and therefore fulfils the legal requirements. [21:41] second [21:41] aye [21:41] aye [21:41] is it a motion? I believe it was "I move to..." [21:42] believed [21:42] ( I don't mind being quick on this, since Gero "volunteered," but Frederic is correct. ) [21:42] There are usages, but as far as I know the form is not necessarily fixed anywhere. [21:42] Agreed. You, Etienne, may say "I move that Gero be appointed." [21:43] True, but we have tended to follow that convention. [21:43] Let's do from now on. [21:43] I learned from Etienne, my God on procedures :-) [21:44] aye [21:44] aye [21:45] Sascha, would you please re-state the motion from Etienne, and then we can put it in the "motion machine". [21:45] ( with the edits that we have discussed [21:46] I move that the Committee of CAcert Inc appoints Gero Treuner as data protection officer. He is a resident of the European Union and therefore fulfils the legal requirements. [21:46] perfect [21:46] if i can help, im cet [21:46] certified DPO [21:47] Second [21:47] aye [21:47] Thank you. In tha last year was 1 mail, treated by the secretary. Help is always god, but officially, the DPO has to be independent from the board. [21:47] ( just to be formal -- now that we have the final motion ) [21:47] aye [21:47] aye [21:47] aye [21:48] Thank you Christophe, that will be good to know. [21:48] Carried [21:48] I am sorry, we have moved the meeting to today that Dirk can attend and now it seems that he is not there yet. So we'd better move on to finances. [21:48] I was just about to ask that. [21:49] Item 2.3.1 -- PAYPAL!!! B-( [21:50] Well, you may read at the Agenda the resumee I wrote. At the moment, the board can just take notice. [21:50] right, all is said in the agenda [21:50] Thank you both. [21:50] Item 2.3.2 -- Christophe. [21:51] Now, does this mean that you intend to resign immediately, Frederic, or wait? [21:51] What is the plan? [21:52] Who resigns, who will be elected, who will form the Finance Team? [21:52] As soon as Christophe is appointed, I resign from Treasurer, and stay to help in any manners. [21:53] I will do monthly/quarter reporting and forecasting. [21:53] Following the statutes, committee members are eleceted by the AGM - only if the board is not complete, board can complete the committee. [21:53] We appoint Bret Watson as treasurer too, or treasurer in second, or member of Finance comitee [21:53] OK. So what will be your position? I understand that you will be handing off "Board Treasurer" to Christophe, but I presume that you will then stay on the Finance Team, correct? [21:54] That means, we can appoint, only after resignation. [21:54] Correct [21:54] Therefore, I hereby resign from the Treasurer position [21:55] Yes, so the procedure is that Frederic resigns. The Board then does a search for an appropriate candidate, Christophe, appoints him, and the Board is no longer involved. [21:56] I hereby nominate Christophe Meester to fill the vacant Board postion of Treasurer. [21:56] Meesters [21:56] Apologies [21:56] np [21:56] second and aye [21:56] first a motion to accept the resign? [21:56] ( postion should be position ) [21:57] sat: Absolutely correct [21:57] We are trying to run too fast! [21:57] OK, moving back a bit. [21:57] Could you please formulate the motion? [21:57] --> FD (f.dumas@185.104.171.55.mixvoip.solutions) hat #board-meeting betreten [21:57] I move that we accept the resignation of Frederic from the role of Treasurer. [21:57] Welcome Frederic the Second. [21:58] second and aye [21:58] aye [21:58] yes [21:58] I don't think that you can vote, Frederic the First. [21:58] I abstain [21:58] aye [21:58] (sat: can you correct Frederic into Frédéric G into to motion system) [21:58] I move that the Committee of CAcert Inc. accepts the resignation of Frédéric G from the role of Treasurer. [21:59] FD: No, you are fine. You are Frederic the Second. [21:59] ok [21:59] sat: Thank you. [21:59] That was my hypothesis, since I am still member of the board until my resignation is accepted. [21:59] Good point. Again, I was getting ahead of myself. [22:00] In any case, I think that everybody has voted, and it Carries. [22:00] aye [22:00] OK. Back to the second motion. [22:00] I hereby nominate Christophe Meesters to fill the vacant Board position of Treasurer. [22:00] Then, leaving the position of Treasurer, I left also my chair in the board and that was my ultimate vote. [22:00] second [22:00] aye [22:00] yes [22:00] aye [22:01] <-> Frederic-Treasurer heißt jetzt Frederic-G [22:01] We are getting tangled. I think that we are missing Sascha's vote, but it still carries. [22:01] I don't see a "I move that" [22:01] OK. Let's pause a moment, and work things out. [22:02] so this is not a motion? [22:02] It is a nomination, not a motion. [22:03] I support Christophe's appointment [22:03] Hmmm. I don't think that I want to change it to a motion. How do others feel? [22:03] Usually, we have motions to vote. But today, we have a lot of elections or nominations. [22:03] Feel free, bdmc [22:04] Yes. We are tending to speed through this. Does anybody want to discuss things so far, or shall we charge on ahead? [22:04] We may go ahead [22:04] (I wrote just a welcome to the Financal Team members - should this also be a motion?) [22:04] Let's at least formulate a valid motion if wie want that [22:05] voting on treasurer could be controled by NSW gov [22:05] I hereby move to nominate Christophe Meesters to fill the vacant Board position of Treasurer. [22:05] Good point. [22:06] OK. We will do this as two parts. A nomination, which we have already done, and a Vote on the Nomination. [22:06] Just as we do with the AGM. [22:06] Etienne has made a nomination. That does not require a vote. [22:07] Now, we vote on whether to accept that nomination, and install Christophe in his new position. [22:08] FD: Did you vote aye or abstain on FG's resignation? [22:08] All in favour of accepting Christophe, as nominated by Etienne, as a new Board ( Committee ) Member of CAcert, Inc? [22:08] (who second) [22:08] sat - FD abstain [22:08] bdmc: yes [22:08] Nomination as at "XX:00", above. [22:08] ( as = was ) [22:09] FD voted twice on accepting the resignation. [22:09] I voted yes on Frédéric's resignation. [22:09] ok [22:10] Thank you, sat, for keeping us in line. [22:10] FD you're right, I misread [22:10] FD: There have been other motions before you joined us. Please look into the motion system if you want to vote on them. [22:11] Of course. Thank you Sasha. [22:11] OK. Time for the vote on our new, potential member. [22:11] This way? I move to appoint Bret Watson and Frédéric Grither as members of the Financial Team. [22:11] We have nominated Christophe, as I said at XX:08. Please vote now. [22:12] aye [22:12] aye [22:12] I vote to accept Christophe Meesters as a member of CAcert Inc. and a member of its committee and the treasurer of CAcert [22:12] second and aye [22:13] (thank you FD for beeing complete) [22:13] aye [22:13] vote=move [22:13] GuKKDevel_log: yes [22:13] Good. Lets pause a moment, and then get back to Etienne's motion. [22:14] <-> GuKKDevel_log heißt jetzt GuKKDevel [22:14] GuKKDevel: Actually, FD was just voting at that point. Not making a new motion. [22:14] Correct [22:15] sat: OK. Are we up-to-date with everything so far? [22:16] This was a writing error, but the content of the motion was clear. [22:16] So? "I move that the nomination of Christophe Meesters as the Treasurer of CAcert Inc. be accepted?" [22:16] Etienne: yes, I will get to your motion next. [22:16] sat: that should be good. [22:17] Etienne: would you please add Christophe to that? [22:17] In fact, FD is right, that he has to be member of Inc and member of the board to become treasurer. [22:17] So I would prefer FD's wording with move instead of vote. (for NSW) [22:17] I was hoping, didn't ask, that he is already a member of CAcert, Inc. [22:19] Maybe we should split it. First accept him as member, then nominate hin as Treasurer. [22:19] Etienne: OK, I can accept that change to the original wording. Do we want to re-do the vote, as well? [22:19] sat: That would probably clean things up quite a bit. [22:19] OK, going back to the beginning. B-) [22:20] I move that Christophe M be accepted as a new member of CAcert Inc. [22:20] I move that Christophe Meesters be accepted as a member of CAcert, Inc. [22:20] I second [22:20] second and aye [22:20] sat: I like yours a bit better. [22:20] You second too? [22:20] Use it. [22:20] aye [22:20] aye [22:20] I would prefer Etienne's wording [22:21] yes [22:21] FD: Now I'm confused. Which wording? [22:21] Sasha's wording, sorry. [22:21] "I move that Christophe Meesters be accepted as a new member of CAcert Inc." [22:21] Yes, that is what I said, too. [22:22] Oh, sure [22:22] Sorry, let's go ahead [22:22] But with the initial, not the last name. What do you think? [22:22] initial [22:22] No, with the full name, I made a mistake, just forget me. [22:22] better complet (NSW gov) [22:22] yes [22:22] ok [22:22] OK, we are split. Last name. [22:23] Meesters [22:23] I move that Christophe Meesters be accepted as a new member of CAcert Inc. [22:23] I move to accept Christophe Meesters as a member of the committee of CAcert Inc. and its Treasurer. [22:23] I second [22:23] Next. We need to use the original Nomination, from Etienne, to vote on adding him to the Board ( Committee ). [22:24] sorry, remove my post [22:24] No. We already have done the "add to CAcert as a member." [22:24] FD seconded, so we can just say "aye" ;-) [22:25] aye [22:25] OK. Etienne, would you please re-post your Nomination as Treasurer? [22:25] yes [22:25] Sorry. I misread that. [22:25] aye [22:25] Congratulations, Christophe! [22:26] OK. Now that that is over, lets sweep up the mess and see where we are. [22:26] thank you and others for your confidence [22:26] Time for the motion from Etienne at XX:11, adding Christophe to that. [22:27] I move to appoint Bret Watson and Frédéric Grither as members of the Financial Team. [22:27] I second [22:27] aye [22:27] yes [22:27] No. I need to add Christophe to your motion. [22:28] We have not said that the Financial Team exists, and Christophe must be a member of that team, since he leads it. [22:28] Why? FT is the treasureres team, so he is part of it by definition, isn't he? [22:28] @Brian: I move to accept Christophe Meesters as the Treasurer of CAcert. [22:29] Someone to second the motion? [22:29] We had many years a FT, last year it was just sleeping. We reactivate it. [22:29] FD you voted that before [22:29] But that says nothing about the "Financial Team." We haven't had such a thing before. ( Not with multiple members ) [22:29] Oh, I see [22:30] Of course we had. With the public officer as member and others. In the past, not last year. [22:30] why vote on the FT? this would exclude gero and dirk [22:30] I'm sorry. I do not remember that name. [22:31] OK. I'm just getting in the way. We seem to have a motion on the floor, and voting is occurring. [22:31] aye [22:32] If we ad FG and BW, we will not exlude some others allready involved in a way or an other. It's just to ad two more. [22:32] ok [22:33] sat: are we done? I think that it carried. [22:33] no [22:33] I see 3 ayes. BE_ChristopheMeesters would you like to vote about your helpers? [22:33] aye [22:33] "I move to appoint Bret Watson and Frédéric Grither as members of the Financial Team." <- from Etiene? [22:33] yes [22:33] yes [22:33] ok [22:34] aye [22:34] that are 5 ayes, right? [22:34] yes [22:34] OK. Moving on in the Agenda. Item 2.4.1 FD, do you have anything to say? [22:35] Face-to-face with key members and new people (Frédéric D) [22:35] I have a feeling that you should nag people, especially me, more frequently about your list of Doodles. [22:35] Basically, Francois considered that the lack of future of CAcert did not deserve to get involve on it. [22:36] Three other new coming volunteers contacted by mail never replied. [22:36] I'm sorry. I don't know who Francois is. [22:37] Thats' all on the front of involving new comers with video meeting. [22:37] yes. i have a zoomroom if needed [22:37] OK. What about "key members?" [22:37] @Brian: Let's me find back the related email [22:37] This is regrettable, but I think it's a good approach. Thank you, FD. [22:39] @Brian: https://lists.cacert.org/wws/arc/cacert-board-private/2020-01/msg00077.html [22:39] On the second front, enhancing our communication with existing active or having been active members: [22:39] Keymembers are people who are active, it's about staying in touch with them and picking up their ideas, if I understood correctly. In short New and old. [22:40] Lambert and Jan have given back positive answers for a video call with us. [22:40] To be scheduled in the close future. [22:41] Yes, I found one of those Doodles. [22:41] Dirk and Gero never replied to my proposal. I send many messages to Dirk and only one to Gero. I will contact Gero again. [22:41] FD: I, for one, would appreciate reminders from you if I am not responding as quickly as you need. [22:42] That's fine, of course I will do it. [22:42] I saw Dirk, briefly, at this morning's meeting. ( early afternoon ) [22:42] BE_ChristopheMeesters vote on the FT cannot be recorded in the motion system yet. I will take it in the minutes. After he has got access, he can vote himself in the motion system. [22:43] sat: Thank you [22:43] Well, in a nutshell, it is a work in progress. I do think it makes sense to let us work better thanks to face to face talks, as we started to do with both of you, Brian and Etienne. [22:44] ok [22:44] Next, Item 2.4.2. I saw the e-mail message. I guess that we, reluctantly, must vote on his withdrawl. [22:44] No vote, I think. [22:44] GuKKDevel, we were all very surprised and regret really your decision. Especially as we had great hope in you, now that your ABC's was finally done. It's to sad. [22:45] May we know what are the underlying reasons of your resignation? [22:46] Maybe GuKKDevel does not want to say it in a public meeting. I have to get in touch with him for some details. [22:47] Im going to get a mobil home (Reisemobil) and will do more traveling and therrefor will have no connections [22:48] That should be interesting -- perhaps fun. [22:48] and no access to my home ressources [22:49] How will you cut yourself off from technology? B-) [22:50] I'll become 61 next time and want to have msome fun as bdmc guessed right [22:50] For the minutes: From what position is GuKKDevel resigning? I cannot find it in my mails or in the agenda. [22:50] All connections to CAcert. [22:50] I did software development [22:50] From the developpers' team. [22:50] are member of CAcert INC [22:51] ok [22:51] If it does not mean any work for you, may we persuade you to remain a member of CAcert, Inc? [22:51] And the idea was that he would start at support as soon as the ABC is printed by Lambert [22:52] (at least I was told so) [22:52] I remember about it. [22:53] GuKKDevel: ? [22:53] I know [22:54] OK. Unless anybody has any objections, I think that I will move on to Question Time. [22:54] Fine. [22:54] 2.4.3 is pushed to next meeting? [22:54] Well, have good journeys, and who knows, maybe you find one or two developpers you could bring us... ;-) [22:54] objection [22:54] Progress of the most pressing bugs and issues (PHP, keygen, ...) ?? [22:55] Does someone knows something? [22:55] I noticed nothing new on it in the mailing lists [22:55] I think arbitration does not work [22:55] august 2016 the ABC started [22:56] last entrance was october 2019 [22:56] and ABC still isn't done [22:56] GuKKDevel, that is one reason, why FD has a face to face meeting with your ABC arbitrator. [22:57] Yes [22:57] And that is Why we had so much hope, that you will enter support, that Dirk could give technical help Andreas to re enter Arbitration. [22:58] But as I have to admit, I didnnc more than four months [22:59] It's not going as planned. We try to do it an other way. [22:59] You did not? Could you repeat? I missed your words. [23:00] <-- BE_ChristopheMeesters (51530b65@localhost) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand-crafted IRC client) [23:01] --> BE_ChristopheMeesters (51530b65@localhost) hat #board-meeting betreten [23:02] @Karl-Heinz: You did not? Could you repeat? I did not understand what you said. [23:02] <-- GuKKDevel (GuKKDevel@2001:4dd7:6c7e:0:5a1:915b:5ff5:2920) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [23:03] As I wrote above, we are sad. But to be honest: If everyone could spare half an hour (more) a day for CAcert - everyone who's here and those who aren't here. Then everything would go much better. But we work with what is possible. [23:03] European Bank Account should be ready next week. More information will follow soon. [23:04] --> GuKKDevel_log (GuKKDevel@2001-4dd7-6c7e-0-618a-c302-472f-8ecb.ipv6dyn.netcologne.de) hat #board-meeting betreten [23:05] got problems with my machine [23:05]