1 [2015-12-18 21:00:46] <R> Welcome greetings to the audience
   2 [2015-12-18 21:01:38] <R> I hereby open todays board meeting
   3 [2015-12-18 21:02:17] <R> 1.2. accept minutes 
   4 [2015-12-18 21:02:19] <INOPIAE> good evening
   5 [2015-12-18 21:02:34] <StefanT> hello
   6 [2015-12-18 21:02:40] <jmbruckner> Good Evening!
   7 [2015-12-18 21:02:42] <felix> hi
   8 [2015-12-18 21:02:43] <R> who is present?
   9 [2015-12-18 21:02:58] <R> 5 board members present
  10 [2015-12-18 21:03:00] =-= INOPIAE hat das Thema geändert auf ''Board Meeting 2015-12-18 20:00 UTC| the channel is moderated for voice to board member only | https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2015-12-18''
  11 [2015-12-18 21:03:06] =-= Modus #board-meeting +m  von INOPIAE
  12 [2015-12-18 21:03:21] <R> we have a quorum
  13 [2015-12-18 21:03:42] <R> let's start with 1.2 accept minutes
  14 [2015-12-18 21:03:48] <R> any remarks?
  15 [2015-12-18 21:04:16] <INOPIAE> just give me a few second sto review the last changes
  16 [2015-12-18 21:04:30] <R> okay
  17 [2015-12-18 21:05:04] <R> ready?
  18 [2015-12-18 21:05:11] <INOPIAE> yes from my side
  19 [2015-12-18 21:05:18] <R> MOTION: Accept minutes from last board meeting
  20 [2015-12-18 21:05:23] <R> aye
  21 [2015-12-18 21:05:25] <INOPIAE> second & aye
  22 [2015-12-18 21:05:27] <StefanT> abs
  23 [2015-12-18 21:05:30] <felix> aye
  24 [2015-12-18 21:05:37] <StefanT> abstain
  25 [2015-12-18 21:05:47] <jmbruckner> aye
  26 [2015-12-18 21:05:56] <R> 4 aye
  27 [2015-12-18 21:06:00] <R> 1 abstain
  28 [2015-12-18 21:06:11] <R> motion carried
  29 [2015-12-18 21:06:33] <R> 1.3. Who is taking minutes?
  30 [2015-12-18 21:06:48] <felix> I would do the minutes.
  31 [2015-12-18 21:07:05] <R> thank you
  32 [2015-12-18 21:07:09] <R> felix is minute taker
  33 [2015-12-18 21:07:14] <R> next topic
  34 [2015-12-18 21:07:15] <R> 1.4 Chair asks whether cacert-board-private maillist includes any items that need to be disclosed to Members.
  35 [2015-12-18 21:07:55] <INOPIAE> There are some items but they are not yet ready for disclosure.
  36 [2015-12-18 21:08:16] <R> anything else?
  37 [2015-12-18 21:08:47] <jmbruckner> not from my side
  38 [2015-12-18 21:08:53] <R> 1.5 Chair asks whether cacert-board maillist includes any business items that aren't on the agenda yet.
  39 [2015-12-18 21:10:11] <INOPIAE> The items on the public mailing list are related to the ones not to disclose on the board private mailing list
  40 [2015-12-18 21:10:33] <R> anything else?
  41 [2015-12-18 21:11:10] <R> no
  42 [2015-12-18 21:11:17] <R> 1.6 Chair introduces the URL of action items to the meeting, and asks for discussion.
  43 [2015-12-18 21:11:36] <R> https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/ActionItems
  44 [2015-12-18 21:12:01] <R> last entry was made on 2014-04-13
  45 [2015-12-18 21:12:22] <INOPIAE> So far we did not have time to review and to renew the action items.
  46 [2015-12-18 21:12:28] <R> OK
  47 [2015-12-18 21:12:33] <R> thank you
  48 [2015-12-18 21:13:21] <R> Let's continue
  49 [2015-12-18 21:13:30] <R> 2. Businesses
  50 [2015-12-18 21:13:55] <R> 2.1 OFT
  51 [2015-12-18 21:14:18] <R> 2.1.1 Financial Report
  52 [2015-12-18 21:14:23] <R> status please
  53 [2015-12-18 21:15:07] <StefanT> ready to deliver
  54 [2015-12-18 21:15:12] <R> OK
  55 [2015-12-18 21:15:40] <R> MOTION: Deliver finance report to OFT
  56 [2015-12-18 21:15:50] <INOPIAE> second & aye
  57 [2015-12-18 21:15:54] <jmbruckner> second & aye
  58 [2015-12-18 21:15:54] <R> aye
  59 [2015-12-18 21:15:58] <StefanT> second & aye
  60 [2015-12-18 21:16:07] <felix> aye
  61 [2015-12-18 21:16:13] <R> 5 aye
  62 [2015-12-18 21:16:17] <R> motion carried
  63 [2015-12-18 21:16:42] <R> 2.1.2 Handover report
  64 [2015-12-18 21:17:23] <R> I send out an email to all members of old board and gave several information about the handover preocedure
  65 [2015-12-18 21:17:35] <R> every member got his personal email
  66 [2015-12-18 21:17:46] <R> so let's see the status for each member
  67 [2015-12-18 21:17:52] <R> president:
  68 [2015-12-18 21:18:23] <R> I had a phone conversation with Dirk. He should give his statements by signed email.
  69 [2015-12-18 21:18:46] <R> I received an email and he denied the handover of the key person lists. 
  70 [2015-12-18 21:19:06] <R> Reasons: he recieved that list not in his role as president of CAcert Inc.
  71 [2015-12-18 21:19:17] <R> I will copy now the mail content here in:
  72 [2015-12-18 21:20:14] <R> Email was sent to board public and members mailinglists
  73 [2015-12-18 21:20:17] <R> Dirk wrote:
  74 [2015-12-18 21:20:23] <R> The keypersons list was handed over to me not as a president. There was a board-motion m20150729.1 to hand it over to Guillaume or Juergen, which was declined.
  75 [2015-12-18 21:20:47] <R> About the handover/distribution of the keypersons list I asked in End of July/beginning of August if arbitration can define a process here by using trusted channels or end-to-end encryption. Unfortunately nobody found it necessary to set up an arbitration case.
  76 [2015-12-18 21:21:08] <R> Furthermore this list may contain personal data from persons, who are not members of CAcert Inc but of the CAcert community. Therefore this list cannot be part of the documents, which have to be handed over from the previous president to the current one by law.
  77 [2015-12-18 21:21:24] <R> This means:
  78 [2015-12-18 21:21:44] <R> In my eyes the statement about the handover of CAcert Inc. related documents from president to president is not a false statement.  Kind regards,  Dirk Astrath
  79 [2015-12-18 21:22:16] <R> The email was signed with gpg key
  80 [2015-12-18 21:22:21] <R> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2  iEYEARECAAYFAlZlaBwACgkQVuf/iihAxwh2jwCg+PuFCzmLe4Q74Ahc1lXlPAt8 yswAnj7JcNul88Ok7tMAV3xZJNQHuDPm =1FiK -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
  81 [2015-12-18 21:22:31] <R> any comments from your side?
  82 [2015-12-18 21:22:46] <jmbruckner> file a dispute please
  83 [2015-12-18 21:22:53] <R> secand
  84 [2015-12-18 21:22:57] <R> second
  85 [2015-12-18 21:23:10] <INOPIAE> second
  86 [2015-12-18 21:23:23] <R> thank you
  87 [2015-12-18 21:23:40] <R> 3 seconds is a quorum
  88 [2015-12-18 21:23:51] <R> vice president, status please
  89 [2015-12-18 21:24:12] <jmbruckner> *smiles*
  90 [2015-12-18 21:24:16] <R> OK
  91 [2015-12-18 21:24:26] <R> that is for logging purposes only
  92 [2015-12-18 21:24:34] <jmbruckner> well i did handover to myself as i continue at board
  93 [2015-12-18 21:24:51] <R> secretary, tatus please
  94 [2015-12-18 21:25:00] <INOPIAE> Etienne send me not a digital signed mail but one with a CARS statement. So I can accept this one according to the requirements.
  95 [2015-12-18 21:25:09] <R> OK
  96 [2015-12-18 21:25:34] <R> treasurer, status please
  97 [2015-12-18 21:25:40] <StefanT> treasurer handover happend in a skype session and with encrypted data transfer
  98 [2015-12-18 21:25:41] <StefanT> MT is cooperative at questions, i think he gave me all what he had.
  99 [2015-12-18 21:25:41] <StefanT> i received no written statement
 100 [2015-12-18 21:26:54] <StefanT> i need further time to handover all procedures
 101 [2015-12-18 21:27:02] <R> OK, handover running
 102 [2015-12-18 21:27:56] <R> next item
 103 [2015-12-18 21:28:01] <R> 2.2 approve incident i20151205.1 "Data Privacy breach" report and actions
 104 [2015-12-18 21:28:38] <R> any comments?
 105 [2015-12-18 21:29:03] <R> MOTION: approve incident i20151205.1 "Data Privacy breach" report and actions
 106 [2015-12-18 21:29:07] <INOPIAE> second & aye
 107 [2015-12-18 21:29:10] <StefanT> aye
 108 [2015-12-18 21:29:12] <R> aye
 109 [2015-12-18 21:29:40] <felix> aye
 110 [2015-12-18 21:29:41] <jmbruckner> aye
 111 [2015-12-18 21:29:45] <R> 5 aye
 112 [2015-12-18 21:29:48] <R> motion carried
 113 [2015-12-18 21:30:28] <R> next item
 114 [2015-12-18 21:30:29] <R> 2.3 Data Privacy Test for all relevant areas in 30 days
 115 [2015-12-18 21:30:58] <R> MOTION: Introduce a set of Data Privacy Tests in the CATS-system that is to be taken and passed by all members of all affected areas.  These tests must be passed by all affected members within 30 days from availability or after appointment to their role and repeated once every 12 months. Failure to do so could lead to sanctions. affected areas: Critical team, Support, Arbitration, Software Assessor, Infrastructure Admins
 116 [2015-12-18 21:31:17] <INOPIAE> second & aye
 117 [2015-12-18 21:31:19] <StefanT> second & aye
 118 [2015-12-18 21:31:33] <R> aye
 119 [2015-12-18 21:31:33] <felix> aye
 120 [2015-12-18 21:31:35] <jmbruckner> aye
 121 [2015-12-18 21:31:40] <R> 5 aye
 122 [2015-12-18 21:31:43] <R> motion carried
 123 [2015-12-18 21:31:50] <R> next item
 124 [2015-12-18 21:31:54] <R> 2.4. Ask Audit for review on temporary support solution
 125 [2015-12-18 21:32:39] <R> Board started to have doubts on the efficency and success of this ruling due to public complaints and opinions of support team members.
 126 [2015-12-18 21:32:51] <R> a20141024.1
 127 [2015-12-18 21:32:56] <R> ruling II
 128 [2015-12-18 21:33:02] <R> any comments?
 129 [2015-12-18 21:33:37] <R> MOTION: Ask the internal Auditor to review the efficency and success of the arbitration ruling a20141024.1 from the moment the Follow Up Ruling II was given on 2015-09-07
 130 [2015-12-18 21:33:41] <jmbruckner> second & aye
 131 [2015-12-18 21:33:41] <INOPIAE> second & aye
 132 [2015-12-18 21:33:43] <felix> aye
 133 [2015-12-18 21:33:44] <StefanT> aye
 134 [2015-12-18 21:33:46] <R> aye
 135 [2015-12-18 21:33:49] <R> 5 aye
 136 [2015-12-18 21:33:53] <R> motion carried
 137 [2015-12-18 21:34:23] <R> next item
 138 [2015-12-18 21:34:30] <R> 3. Question time
 139 [2015-12-18 21:34:44] <R> please open the channel for our auditorium
 140 [2015-12-18 21:34:48] =-= Modus #board-meeting -m  von INOPIAE
 141 [2015-12-18 21:35:00] <R> questions please?
 142 [2015-12-18 21:35:08] <katzazi> for a review over a ruling is an appeal required
 143 [2015-12-18 21:35:13] <katzazi> also that case was reviewed 
 144 [2015-12-18 21:35:22] <katzazi> and the ruling was done on the request of board
 145 [2015-12-18 21:35:38] <katzazi> and board could just ask something else
 146 [2015-12-18 21:35:44] <katzazi> if they do not see it working
 147 [2015-12-18 21:36:05] <katzazi> why are you not doing this?
 148 [2015-12-18 21:36:15] <katzazi> and why are you trying to get the auditor into breach with the DRP?
 149 [2015-12-18 21:37:42] -->| WolfgangKasulke (chatzilla@x4d0a401d.dyn.telefonica.de) hat #board-meeting betreten
 150 [2015-12-18 21:38:14] <katzazi> also why do you think it is not relevant to inform members about possible questions or issues regarding the AGM?
 151 [2015-12-18 21:38:28] <felix> katazi: 'why are you not doing this?' what exactly do you mean by 'this'? file a dispute for appeal?
 152 [2015-12-18 21:38:48] <katzazi> no ask for a change of that ruling
 153 [2015-12-18 21:38:49] <katzazi> READ it
 154 [2015-12-18 21:39:12] <felix> by 'this' you mean 'reading the ruling'?
 155 [2015-12-18 21:39:17] <katzazi> you will see that board is asked to address the arbitrator if an issue arises because of the ruling
 156 [2015-12-18 21:39:21] <katzazi> yes
 157 [2015-12-18 21:39:56] <katzazi> I do not comment the decision of the former board. But board got a lot of possible options presented by me for a long time
 158 [2015-12-18 21:39:56] <R> this theme clarified so far.
 159 [2015-12-18 21:39:59] <R> you will get the answer during the next board meeting.
 160 [2015-12-18 21:40:06] <katzazi> clarified?
 161 [2015-12-18 21:40:10] <katzazi> felix just asked a quesiton
 162 [2015-12-18 21:40:19] <R> you gave an answer
 163 [2015-12-18 21:40:24] <katzazi> not finished 
 164 [2015-12-18 21:40:32] <R> of course not
 165 [2015-12-18 21:40:43] <R> you will get the answer during the next board meeting.
 166 [2015-12-18 21:40:57] <katzazi> i think felix is allowed to get the full answer
 167 [2015-12-18 21:41:03] <katzazi> he is a subcommittee member
 168 [2015-12-18 21:42:04] <katzazi> again: there was a bunch of options presented to board to chose from. Board chose that one. I would not have advised it but it is up to board to do the selection of the team members (if possible - DRP allows this as well)
 169 [2015-12-18 21:42:13] <katzazi> so it was boards choice
 170 [2015-12-18 21:42:42] <katzazi> the ruling you want to review asks anybody involved to address the arbitrator when an issue arises so that there could be changes applied
 171 [2015-12-18 21:43:09] <katzazi> if board thinks that their solution was not working, they should just ask for another solutoin
 172 [2015-12-18 21:43:16] <katzazi> or any other update
 173 [2015-12-18 21:44:24] <katzazi> that is all part of the ruling that I did. If you need more information about the options that I have presented to board - as well as to support - since shortly after Werner was ordered to get a re-training, you can look up board-mails or the case-file or ask me.
 174 [2015-12-18 21:44:29] <katzazi> as the Arbitrator of that case
 175 [2015-12-18 21:44:34] <katzazi> now I am finished
 176 [2015-12-18 21:44:53] <R> OK
 177 [2015-12-18 21:44:55] <R> you will get the answer during the next board meeting.
 178 [2015-12-18 21:45:16] <katzazi> why not now?
 179 [2015-12-18 21:45:45] <R> Let us study the ruling and actions in deep research.
 180 [2015-12-18 21:46:03] <R> 2. question from you:  why do you think it is not relevant to inform members about possible questions or issues regarding the AGM?
 181 [2015-12-18 21:46:10] -->| Robert (robert@pa49-197-150-107.pa.qld.optusnet.com.au) hat #board-meeting betreten
 182 [2015-12-18 21:46:17] <katzazi> if you did not study it why did you order a review?
 183 [2015-12-18 21:46:39] =-= Modus #board-meeting +o Robert von INOPIAE
 184 Times are in UTC +1
 185 
 186 [2015-12-18 21:47:05] <R>  you will get the answer during the next board meeting.
 187 [2015-12-18 21:47:13] <R> Welcome Robert
 188 [2015-12-18 21:47:50] <katzazi> where is the motion to seal the motions from last board meeting?
 189 [2015-12-18 21:48:55] <R> no comment. we respect privacy and personal rights.
 190 [2015-12-18 21:49:41] <katzazi> according to CAcert Inc. Statutes 23B 2. there is one required - if motions could be sealed at all, I would interpret the wording form 23B 1. that they cannot be sealed, as 2. only speaks about deliberations and documents and such while 1. states that all business has to be public
 191 [2015-12-18 21:50:26] -->| alex (alex@82.139.196.202) hat #board-meeting betreten
 192 [2015-12-18 21:50:27] <katzazi> if those motions are about removing people from posts as you have hinted at, others have to know that those people are suspende
 193 [2015-12-18 21:51:06] <katzazi> for example a critical team member has to check if an SA is allowed to hand in bugs, just as an example
 194 [2015-12-18 21:52:00] <katzazi> also I am asking for the missing motion for the seal not the reason for the seal
 195 [2015-12-18 21:52:01] <R> you gave a hint to read our statutes rule 23 B
 196 [2015-12-18 21:52:09] <R> rule 23 B (2)
 197 [2015-12-18 21:52:12] <R> The committee may, by its own motion, close its deliberations to the public, restrict access to any document, or do any other thing as necessary for the proper administration of the association.
 198 [2015-12-18 21:52:23] <R> no comment further
 199 [2015-12-18 21:52:30] <katzazi> i am asking for that motion 
 200 [2015-12-18 21:52:46] <katzazi> that decides that something should be sealed - I cannot see it
 201 [2015-12-18 21:52:57] <R> you will get the answer during the next board meeting
 202 [2015-12-18 21:53:11] <katzazi> why not now? 
 203 [2015-12-18 21:53:19] <katzazi> a motion has to be there or not
 204 [2015-12-18 21:53:25] <R> anybody else will raise a question?
 205 [2015-12-18 21:54:16] |<-- Robert hat irc.cacert.org:7000 verlassen (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
 206 [2015-12-18 21:55:24] <R> no more questions, please close the channel
 207 [2015-12-18 21:55:26] =-= Modus #board-meeting +m  von INOPIAE
 208 [2015-12-18 21:56:18] <R> next item
 209 [2015-12-18 21:56:39] <R> any proposals for the next board meeting?
 210 [2015-12-18 21:57:10] <R> sunday 2016-01-10 10:00 UTC?
 211 [2015-12-18 21:57:18] <StefanT> OK
 212 [2015-12-18 21:57:18] <jmbruckner> sounds good to me
 213 [2015-12-18 21:57:23] <INOPIAE> ok from my side
 214 [2015-12-18 21:57:30] <felix> fine with me
 215 [2015-12-18 21:57:37] -->| Robert (robert@pa49-197-150-107.pa.qld.optusnet.com.au) hat #board-meeting betreten
 216 [2015-12-18 21:57:38] <R> aye
 217 [2015-12-18 21:57:45] <R> hi robert
 218 [2015-12-18 21:57:57] =-= Modus #board-meeting +o Robert von StefanT
 219 [2015-12-18 21:57:59] <R> next board on sunday, 2016-01-10 10:00 UTC
 220 [2015-12-18 21:58:08] <R> fine for you?
 221 [2015-12-18 22:00:44] <Robert> Hi
 222 [2015-12-18 22:00:56] <StefanT> hello Robert
 223 [2015-12-18 22:01:06] <Robert> Hello all
 224 [2015-12-18 22:01:14] <jmbruckner> Hello Robert
 225 [2015-12-18 22:01:48] <Robert> Hi
 226 [2015-12-18 22:03:42] <R> I wish a merry xmas and a happy new year to all of you.
 227 [2015-12-18 22:03:53] <R> I hereby close the board meeting.