. '''To Arbitration [[Arbitrations|Arbitrations]] - To Arbitration [[Arbitrations/Training|Training & Lessons]]'''
. '''Back to [[Arbitrations/Meetings|Arbitration Team Meetings]]''' - '''To [[Arbitrations/Meetings/ATAgendaandMinutes-20110201|Previous meeting]]''' - '''To [[Arbitrations/Meetings/ATAgendaandMinutes-20110301|Next meeting]]'''
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== Arbitration Team Meeting 2011-02-16 (20 CET / 19 UTC (wintertime!)) ==
. 1 '''Preliminaries'''
. 1.1 Chair opens the Committee Meeting
. 1.2 [[Arbitrations/Meetings/AcceptMinutes|Accept the Minutes]] '''[[Arbitrations/Meetings/ATAgendaandMinutes-20110201| Minutes of the last Arbitration Team Meeting 2011-02-01]]''' (u60)
. 2 '''Businesses''' - Important Note: '''Acceptance of Businesses 48 Hours before beginning of Arbitration Team Meeting latest!'''
.2.1 '''Action items from last meeting (Updates)''' added by UlrichSchroeter
.2.1.1 '''The [[Arbitrations/a20100131.1|a20100131.1]] impact (Update)''' added by UlrichSchroeter
. Dispute filing to start cleanup on old "Delete Account" cases
.2.1.2 '''Notifications to Arbitrators of cases from year 2009 (Update)''' added by UlrichSchroeter
. We have about 13 open/running arb cases left from year 2009, plz review
.2.2 '''(C) offers withdrawel w/ conditions -> double binding problem''' added by UlrichSchroeter
. (C) of case [[Arbitrations/a20100313.1|a20100313.1]] offered a withdrawal of case [[Arbitrations/a20100313.1|a20100313.1]], but the withdrawal offer includes conditions (double binding in communications) to a ''Delete my Account'' case [[Arbitrations/a20110108.1|a20110108.1]]. [[Arbitrations/a20110108.1|a20110108.1]] cannot be processed before [[Arbitrations/a20100313.1|a20100313.1]] is closed, and withdrawal cannot be processed before [[Arbitrations/a20110108.1|a20110108.1]] is executed. A so called 0 option.
.2.3 '''Experiences from the first 30 bulk handled Delete Account Cases''' added by UlrichSchroeter
. Ruling has to include the CCA termination date based on Certs and given Assurances.
. Requesting CAP forms from Arbitrators is an essential step, there its helpful, to leave the account of the user open, until he sent in all the requested CAP forms.
. This requires, that Arbitrator has to know, if user has given Assurances.
. So the procedural steps can be simplified to following 4 steps:
1. init notification with deadline set for 14 days (if user responds, the case can continue earlier)
2. request to Support for list of Asssurances Rcvd/Given of the user
3. Intermediate Ruling: including CAP form request (if is Assurer), Order to Support: Printout of User data, delete account procedure for SEs (see also topic 2.2) including Certs revocation that includes request for infos about Certs (last expired, revoked cert)
4. Ruling includes a) confirm intermediate ruling b) CCA termination calculation
.2.4 '''Top Four''' added by YourName ''- Comment: Replace "Top Four" by Title of Top and add your Name''
. Additional Inputs ''- Comment: Replace "Additional Inputs"by Description of Top, Description of Reason-Why/Purpose, Additional Comments, Additional Documents, Additional Links, if useful for other Arbitration Team Members to prepare for Arbitration Team Meeting.''
.2.5 '''Top Five''' added by YourName ''- Comment: Replace "Top Five" by Title of Top and add your Name''
. Additional Inputs ''- Comment: Replace "Additional Inputs"by Description of Top, Description of Reason-Why/Purpose, Additional Comments, Additional Documents, Additional Links, if useful for other Arbitration Team Members to prepare for Arbitration Team Meeting.''
. et cetera
. 3 '''Question Time''' - Important Note: '''Questions from CAcert.org Community Members can be added until beginning of Arbitration Team Meeting! As well questions can be asked at "Question Time", without added Question here'''
. 3.1 "Question One" added by YourName ''- Comment: Replace "Question One" by Your Question and add your Name''
. et cetera
. 4 '''Closing'''
. 4.1 Confirm next Arbitration Team Meeting: Usually every 1st Tuesday and the 3rd Wednesday of the month, 20:00 CEST (18 UTC).
* Wednesday, February 2011-03-01, 21 CET, 20 UTC (wintertime!) ?
. 4.2 Chair closes the Arbitration Team Meeting
. 4.3 Preparation of Minutes
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== Minutes - Arbitration Team Meeting 2011-02-16 ==
* Tuesday, 2011-02-15 (early start)
* Attendees: Lambert, Sebastian, Ulrich
* Chair opens the meeting, pre-meeting starts 20:20 CET
* ''Top 1.2 acceptance of minutes https://wiki.cacert.org/Arbitrations/Meetings/ATAgendaandMinutes-20110201 - bjections ?''
* '''Summary: 2 no objections, 1 abstain, so accepted'''
* ''Top 2.1 Action items from last meeting''
* '' Top 2.1.1 The a20100131.1 impact''
* '''Summary: not yet continued, so defered'''
* 20:23 CET discovered that we are on the wrong day. Meeting defered to Wednesday.
* Wednesday, 2011-02-16
* Attendees: Lambert, Martin, Ulrich
* Chair opens the meeting, starts 20:07 CET
* Minutes were already approved yesterday, right? ;-)
* yesterday we had an early start of the meeting, thats chairs fault, as I've mixed the days around
* pointed out, defered after finishing top 1.2 acceptance of minutes, that its Tuesday and meeting to be held on Wednesday
* ''Top 1.2 accepting minutes https://wiki.cacert.org/Arbitrations/Meetings/ATAgendaandMinutes-20110201''
* '''Summary: 2 no objections, 1 abstain from early start at Tuesday, + 1 aye , so accepted'''
* ''Top 2.1 Action items from last meeting''
* '' Top 2.1.1 The a20100131.1 impact''
* '''Summary: not yet continued, so defered'''
* ''Top 2.1.2 Notifications to Arbitrators of cases from year 2009''
* yesterday DRO sends an email to notify the Arbitrators of the old cases
* Currently 2 of 6 responses + cases by DRO
* 3 cases failed on Member refused to send in ID copy as requested, 2x missing reply on initmailing
* Question: can we delete an account if not confirmed by the user?
* We can, the delete account procedure is a fallback strategy, if an user doesn't respond he violates CCA, so therefor have to be closed down. This is in the delete account state step 1. Write notification with deadline of 2 weeks. If user doesn't respond, continue with the delete account process so the user has an option to intervene
* a 4th case is similiar related
* 3rd (A): we're working on weekly working sessions
* 4th (A): we're working on weekly working sessions
* '''Summary: so 8 of 12 cases are on the move, 2 (A)'s not responded yet, to recheck on next meeting'''
* ''Top 2.2 (C) offers withdrawel w/ conditions -> double binding problem''
* Uli presented a show case
* long discussion
* Solving double bindings is about two options: a) switch to a meta level talk b) rephrasing
* Sample for [[https://lists.cacert.org/wws/arc/cacert-arbitration/2011-01/msg00026.html|rephrasing]]
* Questions handled:
* conditions set by (C) or (R) in an arb case, heard before an (A) .. should be ignored
* Can (iCM) handle a withdrawal w/ conditions ? -> No - conditions if they are reasonable, or can be explained, the A will find out and He/She will set conditions
* When C files a case, and R is informed, C cannot withdraw, without approval by R because it can be a false accusation and from that moment on R should be allowed to explain his/her side of the story. When both agree, it's ok, then there is no dispute, so it can be withdrawn
* '''Summary:
a. conditions in a case are to be ignored by everyone (this is governed by the DRP, nothing else)
a. a case can be withdrawn if all involved parties agree'''
* ''Top 2.3 Experiences from the first 30 bulk handled Delete Account Cases''
* '''Summary: defered to next meeting'''
* ''Top 4.1 next meeting''
* ''Tuesday March 1st, 21:00 CET, 3 ok, accepted''
* Chair closes meeting 21:03 CET
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==== Meeting Transcript ====
* [[Arbitrations/Meetings/Transcripts/transcript-meeting-110216|Meeting Transcript 2011-02-16]] ([[https://wiki.cacert.org/Arbitrations/Meetings/Transcripts/Transcripts-Page-Template|Transcripts-Page-Template]])
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== Inputs & Thoughts ==
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